Key Takeaways

• Former U.S. intelligence officer David Grusch told Joe Rogan that information he encountered suggests there may be multiple, distinct forms of non-human intelligence — and that they may not all be on the same side.
• Grusch described an alleged retrieval involving different types of non-human entities, raising an extraordinary possibility that some recovered UAP may have crashed because of conflict between NHI factions rather than mechanical failure.

By Samuel López | USA Herald

For decades, one question has hovered over alleged UFO crash-retrieval stories; If an intelligence so advanced that it can travel through space, or perhaps manipulate physics in ways humans can’t — can build machines, that keep crashing?

Former U.S. intelligence officer and UAP whistleblower David Grusch may have just offered one of the strangest possible answers.

Maybe some of them didn't simply crash.

During a Sept. 30 appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience, Grusch discussed information and materials that he reviewed, suggesting that multiple distinct forms of what he calls non-human intelligence, or NHI, may be operating around Earth — and indicated that at least some of these groups may have come into conflict with one another.

In the 2-hour, 36-minute episode Grusch describes something much stranger than aliens visiting Earth. Grusch's new account potentially changes the framework of the crash-retrieval mystery.

In the interview, Grusch described information associating different types of NHI beings with different types of craft. He discussed a species that resembles a gorilla, and tall-humanlike entities associated with boomerang or crescent-shaped craft. He also described reptilian-looking entities and associated them directly with the Tic-Tac-shaped vehicles.

Most remarkably, Grusch described an alleged retrieval site involving more than one type of entity — including what were characterized as the short greys and reptilian beings that stood above 7 ft. tall — which he said suggested conflict between separate NHI groups.

That claim remains unverified. USA Herald found no publicly released physical evidence establishing the existence of those entities or proving that a battle between non-human intelligences occurred.

But taken at face value, Grusch's account introduces an extraordinary possibility into the UAP phenomena.

The familiar model has always looked something like this:

Unknown craft → malfunction or accident → crash → human recovery.

Grusch's account raises another possibility:

NHI craft → encounter with another NHI group → conflict → damaged or destroyed craft → crash → human recovery.

That is a fundamentally different story.

What If Humans Aren't the Only Ones Shooting at Each Other?

If multiple technologically advanced non-human groups were actually operating around Earth, there would be no scientific reason to automatically assume they shared the same interests, culture, objectives or relationship with humanity.

Human beings provide an obvious analogy.

An outside observer encountering an American F-35, a Russian Su-57 and a Chinese J-20 would be making a serious mistake by concluding that because all three are technologically advanced aircraft built by the same species, they therefore belong to the same organization.

Different technology can represent different governments, alliances and strategic objectives.

If Grusch's allegations were eventually substantiated, something similar could conceivably apply to NHI.

From 'Non-Human Biologics' to Alleged NHI Conflict

The significance of Grusch's latest statements becomes clearer when compared with what he told Congress three years ago.

During his July 26, 2023 congressional testimony, Rep. Nancy Mace asked whether bodies had been recovered from alleged crashed craft.

Grusch responded that “biologics” had accompanied some recoveries and, when asked whether they were human or non-human, answered, “Non-human.”

Importantly, Grusch said that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge of the alleged program with whom he had spoken.

In a previous episode on Rogan, his earlier claim was essentially:

Recovered craft + alleged non-human biological material.

The latest account goes considerably further:

More specific details about the different NHI types + different craft + conflict between them.

There Is Still a Major Evidence Problem

Extraordinary testimony is not the same thing as independently verifiable evidence.

The Pentagon's All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office has reached conclusions directly at odds with the larger crash-retrieval narrative.

In its 2024 historical review, AARO said it found no empirical evidence that the U.S. government or private companies had been reverse-engineering extraterrestrial technology and no evidence that a U.S. government investigation had confirmed a UAP as extraterrestrial technology.

That does not mean every UAP has been explained.

AARO continues to publish cases it classifies as unresolved, including military imagery in which available information was insufficient for a definitive identification.

But unresolved does not mean extraterrestrial, much less evidence of competing non-human civilizations.

That evidentiary line is crucial.

The Question Nobody Thought We Would Have to Ask

For decades, popular culture imagined "the aliens" as though whatever might be visiting Earth would be doing so with one agenda - peace.

But what Grusch is describing, is something profoundly different.

If his sources are ultimately proven correct, humanity may not be confronting one mysterious intelligence at all. What observers have grouped together under labels such as UFO, UAP, extraterrestrial or NHI could theoretically represent multiple actors with different technologies, interests and perhaps adversarial relationships with one another.

And that creates an unsettling reinterpretation of the crash-retrieval mystery.

Perhaps the question isn't simply why an extraordinarily advanced spacecraft would crash.

The question may eventually become -

What brought it down?

For now, that remains a question — not an established fact.

But after Grusch's latest interview, it may be one investigators can no longer ignore.

About the Author

Samuel López is a legal and investigative correspondent for USA Herald, covering law, national security, emerging technology, artificial intelligence, insurance, and UAP-related developments. A longtime legal analyst with more than two decades of experience, López focuses on examining complex stories through legal analysis, government records, and publicly available evidence.